'Elvis Presley has receded as a musical force'

johnfoyle · Post by **johnfoyle** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:20 pm

In podcasts promoting re-issues of his early albums , Elvis speculates-

http://www.elviscostello.info/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

"It's (the controversy of being called Elvis) sort of receded as - and I may sound terribly disrespectful and heretical - but as Elvis Presley has receded as a musical force. People make much less of a case about it. Elvis is a sort of cultural figure but there is no direct line between the music of Elvis Presley and the music of today. There is none whatsoever , he's no influence whatsoever , that I can detect , on music made today. Other than people who consciously retro in styling themselves after his ideas. There is no direct impact in the way that you can hear the influence of The Beatles or Stevie Wonder or numerous other people. "

- Elvis Costello , March '07

Elvis Costello Podcast No.2 (6.33 in)

http://www.elviscostello.com/media.aspx

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I don't really follow 'the music of today' so can't really agree or disagree. However I presume any music that professes to be defiant and all that takes it's template from what Presley concocted from 1954 onwards so he's still an influence that way.

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I posted this on Charlie Gillett's forum ; this interesting response appeared -

http://www.charliegillett.com/phpBB2/vi ... php?t=4947

Adam posts

It's very difficult to step back from the phenomenon that was Elvis and look at his recordings and attempt to assess them on purely musical grounds. If I try and do this, I'm presented with a very mannered, highly eccentric vocal style over a series of very generic but oddly unique settings. No original material to speak of, adaptations and arrangements that are generally not as musically adept as the originals they are drawn from. But oddly compulsive. What is especially curious is the range of material: from the tough earthiness of Big Mama Thornton and Big Joe Turner to the most unbelievably sentimental country and western schlock ballads like "Old Shep" - all presented without any sense of incongruity whatsoever. As gods go, Elvis was a weirdo.

But getting back to your thread: No, I don't think Elvis does have any direct influence on any modern music. His vocal style was (is) so definitive, anyone who borrows even the slightest mannerism is instantly labelled an impersonator. The bizarre combination of watered down r'n'b, poppy country and crappy Tin Pan Alley is one that was hopelessly outdated even then - unthinkable now. But because it was ELVIS doing it, somehow, it was sort of OK. It was just...Elvis.

Very interesting and thought provoking.

Boy With A Problem · Post by **Boy With A Problem** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:41 pm

Good stuff John -

I listened to the podcasts last night and this caught my attention as well.

I loaded the first Elvis Presely box set - The 50's masters - onto my iPod a while ago - and most of my iPod listening is done on shuffle. The Elvis stuff is out of place - more so than Jerry Lee Lewis, The Circle Jerks or Lee Perry. Not just the singing, but the arrangements as well. I think Costello is right - I can think of some modern artists that seem to be influenced by Presley in non musical terms - remember the Mojo Nixon song ("Don't give me no fool Billy Idol lip") - but that's about it.

Mike Boom · Post by **Mike Boom** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:43 pm

Well if he is saying that the Beatles influence modern music then he has to admit that Elvis Presley , having influenced the Beatles, IS an influence, albeit second hand.

Also you could point to the Smiths and Morrissey having been influenced hugely by Elvis P - just listen to Russholme Ruffians next to Maries The Name of His Latest Flame (its even a medley on RANK).

I think Presleys style and attitude, his vocal style and that Sun rockabilly sound are so ingrained in the history of Rock n Roll that its a little silly to think it has no influence at all on todays music, even if its only by osmosis.

cosmos · Post by **cosmos** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:28 am

Isn't "the music of today" a bit of a vague term?

debbie · Post by **debbie** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:19 am

It is a vague term, but quite meaningful in that if it is 'the music of today' it lasts for one day only and thankfully won't be 'the music of tomorrow'and certainly not 'the music of wednesday week'!

The fact that Elvis still sells millions of records all over the world and has done so for many years now says enough really.

There's quite a good documentry programme about Elvis (from Radio4) which puts him in his cultural context, etc.
Being British, and not particularly historically knowledgeable, I didn't really understand the full extent of segregation - I didn't realise that white people couldn't go and see black bands in those days apart from on 'white nights'.

The programme basically puts forward the idea that Elvis was quite influential in moving things on.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/theelviseffect/pip/om45k/

verbal gymnastics · Post by **verbal gymnastics** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:15 am

Mike Boom wrote:Well if he is saying that the Beatles influence modern music then he has to admit that Elvis Presley , having influenced the Beatles, IS an influence, albeit second hand.

Elvis C's quote is that "...there is no direct line between the music of Elvis Presley and the music of today".

I'm inclined to agree with EC. I'm sure there are many bands out there that are directly influenced by Elvis P but they're not necessarily going to be bands that trouble the charts. They are probably in niche markets rather than mainstream.

Mike Boom · Post by **Mike Boom** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:21 am

I'm inclined to agree with EC. I'm sure there are many bands out there that are directly influenced by Elvis P but they're not necessarily going to be bands that trouble the charts. They are probably in niche markets rather than mainstream.

So define - "direct line" and as said above define "music of today".
If your talking strictly about pop music that is in the charts, and if by "direct line" you mean music that sounds exactly like Presleys music - (and by that do you mean his country music? or his crooning? or his blues? or his rockabilly? or his rock n roll? or his ballads?) then you may be right. But thats hardly a startling revelation, it was over 50 years ago. And even then, what about those remixes of Presley songs that were in the charts just a few years ago? Is that not a direct line? And as was mentioned above, Presley still sells a truck load of records - does that make his music still "musc of today"?

As debbie says above, and I know EC is talking only about music, but Presley kicked down the barriers between black and white music and indeed between country music and blues music and I think when you've kicked down the door for black music to be heard by a white audience and when youve pretty much "written the book" on rock n roll, you cannot help being a direct influence on the music of today, I mean, the guy practically invented rock n roll as we know it.

I just think its a kinda daft thing to say.

so lacklustre · Post by **so lacklustre** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:06 pm

does Cliff count as music of today

Mike Boom · Post by **Mike Boom** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:15 pm

does Cliff count as music of today

Cliffs music, is music of EVERYDAY!.....or perhaps music of last Thursday afternoon.

Boy With A Problem · Post by **Boy With A Problem** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:36 pm

That's Sir Cliff

verbal gymnastics · Post by **verbal gymnastics** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:01 am

Mike Boom wrote:
I'm inclined to agree with EC. I'm sure there are many bands out there that are directly influenced by Elvis P but they're not necessarily going to be bands that trouble the charts. They are probably in niche markets rather than mainstream.
So define - "direct line" and as said above define "music of today".
If your talking strictly about pop music that is in the charts, and if by "direct line" you mean music that sounds exactly like Presleys music - (and by that do you mean his country music? or his crooning? or his blues? or his rockabilly? or his rock n roll? or his ballads?) then you may be right. But thats hardly a startling revelation, it was over 50 years ago.

It's not for me to define it. I'm only giving my view of what EC said. I've not heard the podcast and am reading a selected quote. My view of what EC is saying is that the music of Elvis Presleywhen he was first strutting his funky stuff doesn't relate to the music of today ie bands that trouble the mainstream chartsexcept for in niche markets.

But I certainly take the point about the Little Less Conversation remix which was in the UK charts a few years back.

cosmos · Post by **cosmos** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:05 am

EC is correct if he's talking about mainstream music. But then again, after his Sun and early RCA days were over, Presley wasn't really all that much about the music anyway.

I would much rather listen to that box set that BWAP mentions than the majority of the "music of today". Today's music doesn't have the excitement, the songwriting, the sense of ensemble, or any kind of distinct sound that those old Presley songs have.

johnfoyle · Post by **johnfoyle** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:49 am

Slightly related-

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/11/opini ... ref=slogin

New York Times

August 11, 2007

Op-Ed Contributor

How Did Elvis Get Turned Into a Racist?

By PETER GURALNICK

ONE of the songs Elvis Presley liked to perform in the â€™70s was Joe Southâ€™s â€œWalk a Mile in My Shoes,â€

Mike Boom · Post by **Mike Boom** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:05 am

[quote] â€œElvis was one of those artists, when he sang a song, he just seemed to live every word of it. Thereâ€™s other people that have a voice thatâ€™s maybe as great or greater than Presleyâ€™s, but he had that certain something that everybody searches for all during their lifetime.â€