Greatest American Rock Group

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:00 am

Cocaine by the Grateful Dead

Take a snip of this then play a little riff, don't be afraid to try
Don't need no airplane to get off the ground there's more than one way to fly
Have a little taste, Baby, don't hesitate, every hit don`t have to be a song
Gonna take you to the cosmos, Baby, and boogie with you all night long

Riding out on a rail, feels so fine
Talking 'bout that cocaine express, mainline, got a good head of steam

Never lived down on the Bayou, but I been busted in New Orleans, New Orleans
I can roll all night with you, Baby got a land? I'm just in from Marin
Can't get it off, but I can get it on and we'll be truckin' 'till the break of day

Here comes the doo-dah dealer on his Hog three wheeler, 250 pounds of sin
He's made your car the main attraction. you wanna beef up his action
But he will cut you, before he would cut you in, the only place to win

Riding out on a rail, feels so fine
Talking 'bout that cocaine express, mainline, taking a midnight cruise

Never lived up in the Northlands, but I been snowblind out in Sandford Dew
Snowblind in Sanford Dew, that's enough for you, snowblind

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:05 am

Welcome to the Occupation by REM

Hang your collar up inside
Hang your dollar on me
Listen to the water still
Listen to the causeway
you are mad and educated
primitive and wild
Welcome to the occupation

Here we stand and here we fight
All your fallen heroes
held and dyed and skinned alive
Listen to the Congress fire
Offering the educated
primitive and loyal
Welcome to the occupation

Hang your collar up inside
Hang your freedom higher
Listen to the buyer still
Listen to the Congress
Where we propagate confusion
Primitive and wild
Fire on the hemisphere below

Sugar cane and coffee cup
Copper, steel and cattle
An annotated history
the forest for the fire
Where we open up the floodgates
Freedom reigns supreme
Fire on the hemisphere below
Listen to me
Listen to me
Listen to me
Listen to me

Post by **BlueChair** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:47 am

I dunno, I'd personally put The Grateful Dead and R.E.M. on a similar plane.

I still think The Velvet Underground and The Byrds (particularly their 1966-1968 period) are more important American bands than either of them.

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:44 pm

Noize....Jerry does not write any of the lyrics for the Dead...! You can blame Robert Hunter for that one.....but then again you've probably chosen one of the most banal numbers the Dead have and obscure as hell to boot.....

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:47 pm

Victim or the Crime

Patience runs out on the junkie
The dark side hires another soul
Did he steal his fate or earn it
Was he force-fed, did he learn it
Whatever happened to his precious self control

Like him I'm tired of trying to heal
This tom-cat heart with which I'm blessed
Is destruction loving's twin
Must I choose to lose or win
Maybe when my turn comes I will have guessed

These are the horns of the dilemma
What truth this proof against all lies
When sacred fails before profane
The wisest man is deemed insane
Even the purest of romantics compromise

What fixation feeds this fever
As the full moon pales and climbs
Am I living truth or rank deceiver
Am I the victim or the crime
Am I the victim or the crime
Am I the victim or the crime
Or the crime

And so I wrestle with the angel
To see who'll reap the seeds I sow
Am I the driver or the driven
Will I be damned to be forgiven
Is there anybody here but me who needs to know

What it is to face this fever
As the full moon pales and climbs
Am I living truth or rank deceiver
Am I the victim or the crime
Am I the victim or the crime
Am I the victim or the crime
Or the crime

now I could put the lyrics to STAND or ORANGE CRUSH here or a bunch of other meaningless REM songs to prove my point....but why bother..

Post by **BlueChair** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:55 pm

Copenhagen Fan wrote:Noize....Jerry does not write any of the lyrics for the Dead...! You can blame Robert Hunter for that one.....but then again you've probably chosen one of the most banal numbers the Dead have and obscure as hell to boot.....

The number you chose wasn't even a Grateful Dead song. It was some old jug band song that the Dead never even recorded. Scraping the bottom of the barrel implies that you can't accept facing R.E.M.'s best with The Grateful Dead's best

El Vez · Post by **El Vez** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:03 pm

Also, Jerry Garcia wasn't even the primary lyricist for The Grateful Dead. Robert Hunter was the one who wrote the words for most of their songs or cowrote with his fellow band members.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:16 pm

It doesn't imply that at all. I went to a web site of Dead lyrics, clicked at random, and cut and pasted the lyrics. I did the same thing on an REM lyrics page. Dumb luck on my part that the song I posted was not a well-known Dead song.

I'll post a hit next.

P.S. If Robert Hunter is the lyricist, then he's to blame for the drug-induced drivel. My bad. Jerry's just responsible for the mediocre singing and hackneyed noodling.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:19 pm

We'll do train songs:

Casey Jones by The Grateful Dead

Casey Jones

Driving that train, high on cocaine,
Casey Jones is ready, watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.

This old engine makes it on time,
Leaves Central Station 'bout a quarter to nine,
Hits River Junction at seventeen to,
At a quarter to ten you know it's travlin' again.

Driving that train, high on cocaine,
Casey Jones is ready, watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.

Trouble ahead, Lady in red,
Take my advice you'd be better off dead.
Switchman's sleeping, train hundred and two is
On the wrong track and headed for you.

Driving that train, high on cocaine,
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.

Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
Got two good eyes but you still don't see.
Come round the bend, you know it's the end,
The fireman screams and the engine just gleams...

Driver 8 by REM

The walls are built up, stone by stone,
The fields divided one by one
And the train conductor says
"take a break driver 8, driver 8 take a break
We’ve been on this shift too long"

And the train conductor says
"take a break driver 8, driver 8 take a break
We can reach our destination, but we’re still a ways away"

I saw a treehouse on the outskirts of the farm
The power lines have floaters so the airplanes won’t get snagged
Bells are ringing through the town again,
Children look up, all they hear is sky-blue, bells ringing

And the train conductor says
"take a break driver 8, driver 8 take a break
We can reach our destination, but we’re still a ways away"
But we’re still a ways away

Way to shield the hated heat
Way to put myself to sleep
Way to shield the hated heat
Way to put myself, my children to sleep

He piloted this song in a plane like that one
She is selling faith on the go tell crusade
Locomotive 8, southern crescent hear the bells ring again
Field to weed is lookin’ thin

And the train conductor says
"take a break driver 8, driver 8 take a break
We’ve been on this shift too long"
And the train conductor says
"take a break driver 8, driver 8 take a break
We can reach our destination, but we’re still a ways away"
But we’re still a ways away

Post by **BlueChair** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:22 pm

Lyrically, those two songs seem to be about on the same level.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:36 pm

Social commentary songs about bad leadership:

U.S. Blues by Grateful Dead

Red and white, blue suede shoes, I'm Uncle Sam, how do you do?
Gimme five, I'm still alive, ain't no luck, I learned to duck.
Check my pulse, it don't change. Stay seventy-two come shine or rain.
Wave the flag, pop the bag, rock the boat, skin the goat.
Wave that flag, wave it wide and high.
Summertime done, come and gone, my, oh, my.

I'm Uncle Sam, that's who I am; Been hidin' out in a rock and roll band.
Shake the hand that shook the hand of P.T. Barnum and Charlie Chan.
Shine your shoes, light your fuse. Can you use them ol' U.S. Blues?
I'll drink your health, share your wealth, run your life, steal your wife.
Wave that flag, wave it wide and high.
Summertime done, come and gone, my, oh, my.

Back to back chicken shack. Son of a gun, better change your act.
We're all confused, what's to lose?
Wave that flag, wave it wide and high.
Summertime done, come and gone, my, oh, my.

World Leader Pretend by REM

I sit at my table and wage war on myself
It seems like it's all, it's all for nothing
I know the barricades, and
I know the mortar in the wall breaks
I recognize the weapons, I used them well

This is my mistake. Let me make it good
I raised the wall and I will be the one to knock it down

I've a rich understanding of my finest defenses
I proclaim that claims are left unstated,
I demand a rematch
I decree a stalemate
I divine my deeper motives
I recognize the weapons
I've practiced them well. I fitted them myself

(chorus)
It's amazing what devices you can sympathize, empathize
This is my mistake. Let me make it good
I raised the wall and I will be the one to knock it down

Reach out for me and hold me tight. Hold that memory
Let my machine talk to me, let my machine talk to me

This is my world
And I am world leader pretend
This is my life
And this is my time
I have been given the freedom
To do as I see fit
It's high time I've raised the walls
That I've constructed

(repeat chorus)

You fill in the mortar. You fill in the harmony
You fill in the mortar. I raised the wall
And I'm the only one
I will be the one to knock it down

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:43 pm

Songs of longing with repetitive choruses.

Hell in a Bucket by the Dead

Well I was drinkin' last night with a biker
And I showed him a picture of you
I said, "Pal get to know her, you'll like her
Seemed like the least I could do.
Cause when he's chargin' his chopper
Up and down your carpeted halls
You will think I am dressed up quite proper
Never mind how I stumble and fall.

You imagine me sipping champagne from your boot
For taste of your elegant pride
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe
But at least I'm enjoying the ride, at least I'll enjoy the ride.

Cause you're a sweet little softcore pretender
Somehow, babe, it got as hot as it gets
With her black leather and gold spike suspenders
And your chain, your black whip and pets.

Well we know you're the reincarnation
Of the infamous Catherine the Great
And we know how you love the ovation
And the scene that it seems to create.

You imagine me sipping champagne from your boot
For taste of your elegant pride
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe
But at least I'm enjoying the ride, at least I'll enjoy the ride.

You analyze me, tend to despise me
You laugh when I stumble and fall
There may come a say when I'll dance on your grave
Unable to dance I'll still crawl across it
Unable to dance I'll still crawl
Unable to dance I'll still crawl
Unable to dance I'll crawl.

You must really consider the circus
It just might be your kind of zoo
I can't think of a place that's more perfect
For a person as perfect as you.

And it's not like I'm leaving you lonely
Cause I wouldn't know where to begin
Well I know you wake up here only
When the snakes come marching in.

You imagine me sipping champagne from your boot
For taste of your elegant pride
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe
But at least I'm enjoying the ride, at least I'll enjoy the ride.
Ride, ride, ride
Ride, ride, ride
Ride, ride, ride
At least I'll enjoy the ride.
At least I'll enjoy the ride.
AT LEAST I'LL ENJOY THE RIDE.

Be Mine by REM

I never thought of this as funny
It speaks another world to me
I wanna be your Easter bunny
I wanna be your Christmas tree.

I’ll strip the world that you must live in
of all its godforsaken greed.
I’ll ply the tar of your feathers.
I’ll pluck the thorns out of your feet.
You and me.
You and me.
You and me.

And if I choose your sanctuary.
I’ll want to wash you with my hair.
I’ll want to drink of sacred fountains
and find the riches hidden there.

I’ll reap the lotus and the pyote.
I’ll want to hear the caged-bird sing.
I’ll want the secrets of the temple.
I’ll want the finger with the ring.
You and me.
You and me.
You and me.

And if you made me your religion.
I’ll give all the room you need.
I’ll be the drawing of your breath.
I’ll be carpet you should weave.
I’ll be the sky above the Ganges
I’ll be the vast and stormy sea.
I’ll be the lights that guide you inland.
I’ll be the visions you will see.
Visions you will see.
You will see.
You will see.
You and me.
You and me.
You and me.

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:31 pm

In agreement that Robert Hunter songs have shitty lyrics..! I'm into Bob Weir songs, with John Barlow writting the lyrics...! But one must also understand the context for Hunter's lyrics....most of the major tunes are from the late 60's and early 70's....he was a type of story teller using weird cowboy type imagery and that stuff.....still the Dead ROCK ....but then again I've seen them over 50 times and followed them and got caught up in the whole movement.....It's a beautiful thing to see and be a part of....all the cool and beautiful people who are pretty open and pure in a drugged out way. Free people living free and loving life. If you don't understand the context, then you'll never really get it. Jerry still blows Peter Buck away...in all contexts....Peter Buck is pretty cool, especially up until Life's Rich Pagent..but he ran out of licks baby.

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:36 pm

By the way..I fucking love Hell in A Bucket...! Great live number! Peter BUck could never play that tune!

Love Bobby's falsetto "A least I'm enjoyin* the ride....ride ride ride...weeeeee*

Post by **BlueChair** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:43 pm

Heroin by The Velvet Underground

I don't know just where I'm going
But I'm gonna try for the kingdom, if I can
'Cause it makes me feel like I'm a man
When I put a spike into my vein
And I'll tell ya, things aren't quite the same
When I'm rushing on my run
And I feel just like Jesus' son
And I guess that I just don't know
And I guess that I just don't know
I have made the big decision
I'm gonna try to nullify my life
'Cause when the blood begins to flow
When it shoots up the dropper's neck
When I'm closing in on death
And you can't help me now, you guys
And all you sweet girls with all your sweet talk
You can all go take a walk
And I guess that I just don't know
And I guess that I just don't know
I wish that I was born a thousand years ago
I wish that I'd sail the darkened seas
On a great big clipper ship
Going from this land here to that
In a sailor's suit and cap
Away from the big city
Where a man can not be free
Of all of the evils of this town
And of himself, and those around
Oh, and I guess that I just don't know
Oh, and I guess that I just don't know
Heroin, be the death of me
Heroin, it's my wife and it's my life
Because a mainer to my vein
Leads to a center in my head
And then I'm better off and dead
Because when the smack begins to flow
I really don't care anymore
About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
And all the politicians makin' crazy sounds
And everybody puttin' everybody else down
And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds
'Cause when the smack begins to flow
Then I really don't care anymore
Ah, when the heroin is in my blood
And that blood is in my head
Then thank God that I'm as good as dead
Then thank your God that I'm not aware
And thank God that I just don't care
And I guess I just don't know
And I guess I just don't know

laughingcrow · Post by **laughingcrow** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:39 pm

Woah...I didn't mean to start The Grateful Dead wars..

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:48 pm

I get the Dead. I just don't like the Dead. And saying that people who don't like it just don't get it is a cop out. We can agree to disagree, as all of this is ultimately a matter of taste. I've seen the Dead, and I think they're highly overrated. I've seen Pink Floyd and think they're overrated as well. That doesn't mean I don't get them.

It also sounds somewhat like you like the culture of a Dead concert more than the band themselves. And that's very much a different thing. I used to love going to the Rocky Horror Picture Show. The crowd and the atmosphere is really fun. But the movie sucks. And it always has. Every Deadhead I know says basically the same thing: that you have to see them live and experience the culture. But that's not the band, that's the concert experience. I'll give you that a Dead show is more of an event than an REM show. Or a show by most anyone else. It's a traveling village, and that is a unique thing. One that earns the band a place in the history books. But it's a relatively narrow group of people that that appeals to. The cultural impact is actually fairly limited outside of Deadhead circles. Whereas bands like REM have huge impact, even on people who don't like them. The list of bands that name REM as a significant influence is gigantic and diverse. And the list of bands that don't admit how much they rip off Peter Buck's signature sound is similarly staggering.

Post by **BlueChair** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:51 pm

Yeah but Peter Buck's signature sound was ripped off from Roger McGuinn

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:23 pm

And greatly improved upon.

Jackson Monk · Post by **Jackson Monk** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:31 pm

Noisey dude....I rarely disagree with you but...having observed and enjoyed this little thread tête-à-tête between you three.........I have to say............meaning no offence or anything....... I think its bollocks to rate Buck over McGuinn. ....................................IMHO............

Boy With A Problem · Post by **Boy With A Problem** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:02 pm

I saw REM back in '85 and I liked them fine. That same year I saw four other bands that I thought had better guitar players and had a much bigger impact on my life - Los Lobos, Husker Du, Minutemen and the Meat Puppets. Husker Du, along with the Pixies, were a huge influence on Nirvana and all that came from that. I think it can be argued that you hear more of Mould's style in bands today than you hear Buck's.

I like the songs fine, but Stipe is sort of in the realm of pretentiousness that has only been attained by the likes of Sting and Bono (and again, I like a lot of the Police and U2). At a certain point you get turned off by the bigness and self importance of it all.

And Los Lobos are still better musicians pound for pound (have you seen the girth that is David Hidalgo and Cesar Rojas

) than either the Dead or REM. (and really the Byrds and the Band are better than either the Dead and REM).

I don't think the lyrics wars are too productive. I'm sure Sheena Is A Punk Rocker looks pretty lame on paper, but I think it's a better song (message, words and music) than anything in the Dead or REM songbook.

5 underrated American Bands from the 60's -

The Standells
The Bobby Fuller 4
Sam the Sham & The Pharaohs
13th Floor Elevators
Barry & The Remains

bambooneedle · Post by **bambooneedle** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:19 pm

Another underrated one is The Doobie Brothers. I'm talking about their early albums - The Doobie Brothers, Toulouse Street, The Captain And Me, What Once Were Vices Now Are Habits, Stampede, Taking It To The Streets - before they hired Michael McDonald (well, he was on the last of those and it was ok), went all ballady, and used too much keyboards and not enough guitars. Like The Band, they acquired a texture and unselfconsciousness in their music only attained through playing together for ages and loving their craft. Great vocal harmonizing and musicality, and very imaginative at times. I know some of you think they're just hippies or something but check them out sometime. The Captain And Me is my favourite.

selfmademug · Post by **selfmademug** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:56 pm

Talk about wanking... okay will shut it there.

But BoyWAP I totally agree wit you about LOS LOBOS. They kick major ass and have for EONS.

selfmademug · Post by **selfmademug** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:42 pm

and dear Bamboo, I can't entirely say yes to the Doobies, but for some reason it reminds me we've (I think) forgotten Steely Dan.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:37 pm

Jackson Monk wrote:Noisey dude....I rarely disagree with you but...having observed and enjoyed this little thread tête-à-tête between you three.........I have to say............meaning no offence or anything....... I think its bollocks to rate Buck over McGuinn. ....................................IMHO............

I'm (again) not talking about chops. People keep missing that. Roger McGuinn is a better guitar player than Peter Buck. No question. But the signature sound created by McGuinn does not define everything Peter Buck does. If you only go as far as REM's frst three albums, then you can safely say he owes everything to McGuinn. But what from Monster or New Adventures in HiFi does Buck owe to the Byrds? In what way does Roger Mcguinn's 12-string stylings leave any imprint at all on Finest Worksong or Feeling Gravity's Pull? It doesn't. I'm saying about Peter Buck that while in early albums he wears his Roger McGuinn fan club button on his sleeve, he greatly improved as a guitarist and developed a signature sound all his own. One that I think is an essential component of college rock for the past 2 decades.

BWAP, Michael Stipe is pretentious as hell. No argument. And Husker Du is criminally neglected. No argument there, either. I will only quote Kurt Cobain in my defense, who once said that if you wanted to see where Nirvana's sound came from, you should listen to the pixies and REM. Remember that Scott Litt was brought in to "fix" In Utero. That's not an accident.