who's the better lyricist?

billyboy2674 · Post by **billyboy2674** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:29 pm

Ok I know I prob shouldn't be doing this~it is somewhat childish but heck-childish things are fun(most of them)....what I'm asking is which of the two are better at wordplay,imagery,metaphor etc..as well as who is more powerful and/or entertaining in their message.
Come on guys and gals lets have a little fun with this one and spare me the critiques.

Post by **BlueChair** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:37 pm

I gotta go with Dylan. However, Elvis seems to have a larger vocabulary, which makes things more interesting at times.

lapinsjolis · Post by **lapinsjolis** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:45 pm

You can't date Elvis (he's engaged) and his word play at times is staggering in it's genius. Bob Dylan is great and earnest but a lot of it is dated (and you wouldn't want to date Mr. Dylan). He is a pioneer and a testament to his time.

Post by **BlueChair** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:48 pm

Hmm...

I'm not sure I understand the whole concept of dated in terms of lyrics. I always saw that as having more to do with production techniques and so forth.

Dylan and Elvis both deal with subject matter that is archiac and modern. "Simple Twist Of Fate" is just as appropriate in 2003 as it was in 1975, and the same goes for many of Elvis's songs.

They have both also dipped into the past in their lyrics at times too.

Explain.

billyboy2674 · Post by **billyboy2674** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:57 pm

just what I was lookin' for.I was going to include a third in the mix but couldnt decide on who.to me-those are the two best-and similar in some ways though vastly different in many others.IMO I cant see anyone else coming close to the league both dylans are in.

lapinsjolis · Post by **lapinsjolis** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:59 pm

Not every song is marked by the year Bob Dylan wrote it but some are, to me but maybe I've gotten older and the songs have remained young. As for production, 'Punch the Clock' and 'Goodbye Cruel World' are dated in production but not in the lyrics. Some of the songs on Elvis' first album could have been written today. A lot of the beatnik angst that makes up Bob Dylan furor is over or have evolved into another expression. But like his lyrics better, I'll like Elvis. Both are exceptional.

so lacklustre · Post by **so lacklustre** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:02 pm

This is an EC board, let me think who is going to win the vote. Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm................

Watching_Detectives · Post by **Watching_Detectives** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:12 pm

Elvis...by far. And I know I shouldn't say this, because some may want to lynch me, but I don't think Dylan is all that special...

Post by **BlueChair** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:29 pm

billyboy2674 wrote:
IMO I cant see anyone else coming close to the league both dylans are in.

Am I reading this correctly? You actually consider Jakob Dylan to be in the same league as his father? A higher league than Elvis, for that matter?

I dunno, I like some of the Wallflowers stuff, but I think Jakob's lyrics are mediocre at best. Nothing near the lyricism of Bob, Elvis, and dozens of other songwriters.

RedShoes · Post by **RedShoes** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:30 pm

How......can..........I..........compare........!?! I think they both have a great lyrical sense, each in their own way. Both hold a great sense of social justice and their songs have stood the test of time. Dylan somehow seemed more influential, as he was especially popular during a really crazy time....but then as most of you have mentioned Elvis's wordplay is just genius. I will pick.........................

.........Dylan. Just to go against the norm

(although I really don't know that I can pick either and feel entirely comfortable with it)

lapinsjolis · Post by **lapinsjolis** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:31 pm

I think he may be referring to the man who gave him his surname-Dylan Thomas.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:32 pm

I think they're both wonderful, but I find myself quoting Elvis more than Bob. But that was a really tough call.

girl out of time · Post by **girl out of time** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:11 pm

it´s such a tough call.....since they address issues and subjects in such different ways......dylan can write a heartbreaking lovesong like it ain´t me babe (one of my all time faves i must say) and he´s great at that.....and then he can make a whole album about lost love and the many consequences of love like blood on the tracks.......but he´s more likely to be regarded as a protest singer-songwriter who talks about freedom, social awareness, the wrongs of this world, etc, etc.....
.....as for E.C. he has been constantly labelled as "the angry singer songwriter" (aren´t you guys tired of reading that in every single article they write about him?!) who spits his venom here and there delivering instant classics of unrequited love, twisted love, dark love, lust, etc, etc,
.........i think that these type of silly, yet inevitable labels on such great musicians (as these two surely are) keep people from appreciating albums like north or street legal........

......i´m sorry but this choice is too tough.......i can´t say who´s a better lyricist......i guess they are both exeptional!!!!!!

......what i can say is who´s a better singer: but that is an obvious one!

whtesde · Post by **whtesde** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:24 pm

I think they're both brilliant in very different ways, but I had to go with Dylan (though I feel vaguely guilty about it), because I believe that if there were no Bob Dylan records, there would be no Elvis Costello. If there were no Joni Mitchell records, there would be no Elvis Costello. It's a simplistic way to put it, but the best way I know how to at the moment.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:46 pm

Example of dated lyrics (but not from either of these two artists):

"I think it's so groovy now
that people are finally getting together
Think it's wonderful and how
that people are finally getting together..."

"Surry down to a stoned soul picnic..."

And everything else by Spanky and Our Gang.

Misha · Post by **Misha** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:56 pm

I am much more a fan of intellectual wordplay and cunning usage of phrases than I am of Mr. Dylan's writing.

Dylan has never done it for me. It's that voice I can't get beyond....

Post by **BlueChair** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:01 pm

Misha wrote:I am much more a fan of intellectual wordplay and cunning usage of phrases than I am of Mr. Dylan's writing.

Dylan has never done it for me. It's that voice I can't get beyond....

Dylan practically invented intellectual worldplay, misha...

and this is about lyrics, not voice...

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand

Misha · Post by **Misha** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:06 pm

Blue!!!

How the hell can I get past his voice to his lyrics? Just read em?

I'm not a fan.....so, I guess I would have no real idea about his lyrics......but, knowing that he is a master it makes me slightly more inclined to listen to one of his songs....

Post by **BlueChair** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:11 pm

Misha wrote:Blue!!!

How the hell can I get past his voice to his lyrics? Just read em?

I'm not a fan.....so, I guess I would have no real idea about his lyrics......but, knowing that he is a master it makes me slightly more inclined to listen to one of his songs....

That's kind of the idea behind lyrics, isn't it? I mean, just reading them should be able to convey some sense of the ability of wordplay. As opposed to songwriting which has to do with both the music and the lyrics.

And even songwriting in general goes way beyond a particular artist's abilities in terms of performance. You can have a songwriter who might be the worst performer ever, but still manages to write beautifully. I highly doubt any of us would want to hear William Shakespeare sing

I mean a lot of people can at least respect covers of Dylan's material, even if they don't particularly like Dylan's singing.

Misha · Post by **Misha** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:19 pm

Ah, Blue.....you have it....

I do like covers of his songs.....I did confuse songwriting and being a lyricist....

Damn it I hate it when men are right...

Ok, (hand over heart) I solemnly promise to read some Dylan lyrics...

billyboy2674 · Post by **billyboy2674** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:56 am

BlueChair wrote:
billyboy2674 wrote:
IMO I cant see anyone else coming close to the league both dylans are in.
Am I reading this correctly? You actually consider Jakob Dylan to be in the same league as his father? A higher league than Elvis, for that matter?

I dunno, I like some of the Wallflowers stuff, but I think Jakob's lyrics are mediocre at best. Nothing near the lyricism of Bob, Elvis, and dozens of other songwriters.

quite to the contraire blue chair..I was talking bout elvis and bob-not his son.

billyboy2674 · Post by **billyboy2674** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:58 am

lapinsjolis wrote:I think he may be referring to the man who gave him his surname-Dylan Thomas.

that is correct lapins.thx.

PlaythingOrPet · Post by **PlaythingOrPet** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 5:34 am

It's like being told you must choose your favourite child, not that I have kids, you understand. But, I agree with whtesde: no Dylan, no Costello. Simple as. Remember, he is forever described as the best lyricist since Dylan (or Lennon or McCartney), not the best lyricist since Guthrie.

Here's a fact: Bob wrote the music for Blowin' In The Wind in under 10 minutes, but took a month to write the lyrics. It has something to do with left-handers understanding melody better than language. This could be said for McCartney but what about Elvis?

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 5:34 am

tough to compare the two....Bob was a god then in his own era.....but a little outdated now......my vote goes to Elvis, just because he's my fave of all time.

miss buenos aires · Post by **miss buenos aires** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:42 am

BlueChair wrote:And even songwriting in general goes way beyond a particular artist's abilities in terms of performance. You can have a songwriter who might be the worst performer ever, but still manages to write beautifully. I highly doubt any of us would want to hear William Shakespeare sing

I know you're kidding (the emoticon tells me so), but Shakespeare did perform his own work. He just wasn't a songwriter.

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