Thoughts on the reissues (so far)

pophead2k · Post by **pophead2k** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:47 pm

I never fully appreciated Worthless Thing until I actually lived in Memphis. Elvis nails the whole cult of Dead Elvis Presley spot-on. I also believe that Home Truth and Love Field are amongst his best compostitions. It is an enjoyable disc, and the live versions of many of the songs are fantastic. I do like the alternate versions of Deportee and The Comedians a lot more than the official versions though.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:30 am

Agree with the above that GCW is better than I expected. I think the bonus disc helps this A LOT. This may be the best bonus disc in terms of salvaging what i thought was weak material. And The Only Flame In Town from the bonus disc is so good. I may burn myself a new copy of the original album with the demo of TOFIT in place of the godawful Hall & Oates one.

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:03 pm

Godawful?

You like the demo version?

EWWWW!

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:10 pm

I like the demo version a lot. And the live solo guitar version as well. The final studio version is almost unlistenable. The sax part, as Elvis himself perfecty said, sounds like the theme from Moonlighting. It's practically Kenny G. It screams "I was made in 1984, date me, date me." I think it's safe to say that most people find that track to be just about the biggest pile of crap (next to broken) that EC has released. You disagree, which is fine. But don't act surprised. People have been (fairly) dogging the Sax on the beach version for ages on here. The production of the original release is terrible throughout, so much so that I never even knew I liked those songs. Thanks God for the demos--I see now that the songs are great, some of them are extraordinary. And that demo cut of Only Flame is just about perfect. I wouldn't have changed a note.

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:44 pm

Haha, oh my god.

Come one, come all- the safe answers have arrived.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:40 pm

How is it "safe" to say that I genuinely prefer the demo to the original release? And what's your beef with me saying so? So you like it. So what? I don't. That makes you dangerous?

Get over your sense of self-importance. The world doesn't hinge on your opinions (or mine). Let people disagree with you without belittling them with immature posts.

SweetPear · Post by **SweetPear** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:24 am

I totally agree with you, Noise, about the OFIT demo and the IWBL as well.
I love both of those songs but the versions released on the original record just don't fit at all. That's why hearing those demos blew me away, because they are absolutely better and suit the record much more. That was one thing that surprised me about GCW. Then I figured it out after hearing the bonus material. I can see why EC wasn't happy with what was released on the record. He knew what they were leaving off. They made some poor choices.....admittedly. But the bonus disc clears all that up and validates EC's feelings about the record.

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:36 am

noise, settle down. I'm sick of our petty arguments being recognized as either a "cry for help" from me, or a life lesson from you. My last post did not, in any way, reflect some phantom "sense of self importance", and I never once even HINTED that the world was hinged on my opinion. Keep the shit you spew right where you pull it from- your ass.

Anyway, The Only Flame In Town and I Wanna Be Loved have long been considered the "two odd tracks out" for me on Goodbye Cruel World. I Wanna Be Loved is still a track that doesn't fit. However, upon listening to "The Only Flame In Town", I realized what I was missing. I looked passed the cheesey video (which is actually pretty damn comical), and learned to love the sax. The sax is just fine in the song, its cheeseiness makes it that much better (see: "Hourglass" - Squeeze*)

Elvis's vocal delivery, for one thing, is much better in the album version than the slower (and lamer) versions found on CD2. The music is better (I love the "punches" in the album version), and the overall arrangement is executed better.

The alternate version is too repetitively bad for my taste.

*disclaimer: I hate the sax in "Hourglass". I don't know why I used that as a reference.

Sour Milk Cow · Post by **Sour Milk Cow** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:52 am

I used to dislike the album version of TOFIT, but I have come to love it. The lyric is very clever, but I think the slow, ballad version just kills it by making it too turgid and self-important. EC obviously prefers it this way, and we now have three slowed-down versions available-- 2 on the GCW bonus disc, 1 on the ATUB bonus disc. But if it were up to EC, I get the feeling he would slow down a lot of his songs into mournful ballads if he was given the chance. And he has plenty of them to spare, songs that are much more suited to that style than Only Flame is.

Personally, I like the exuberance of the album version. Yes, the production and the sax are very 80s, but at least the song has some life in it. I think all the puns and wordplay sound ridiculous when he sings it like it's Almost Blue or some kind of serious Cole Porter ballad.

It's strange, but despite the fact that the production on TOFIT and IWBL are most often cited as the worst offenders, I'm much more bothered by the sound of songs like Home Truth, The Great Unknown or The Comedians. And despite EC's criticisms of TOFIT, he seems to hold Sour Milk Cow Blues in the lowest regard of all, seeing as he slags it off in the liner notes and fails to include a demo on the bonus disc.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:07 am

wehitandrun wrote:noise...Keep the shit you spew right where you pull it from- your ass.

What a prick you are. But at least you didn't threaten to piss in my parents' mouths...

Self -importance is evident when you write things like "here come all the safe answers." You're saying my answer was safe. By implication, you're saying that you have the opinion that rises above all the conventional wisdom and gets to the truth--that the sax is great on this song because it's cheesy (just like that other song by Squeeze that... you actually hate. Do you listen to yourself ever?) You're entitled to your opinion the same as everyone else. The difference is that when people say they find the song unlistenable, you not only disagree, you call their taste and intelligence into question for disagreeing with you. By labeling my answer "safe," instead of acknowledging that I might just genuinely prefer Daryl Hall when his mouth is shut, you label your own as above all others. And since your response to my opinion was utterly unsolicited (I posted my reaction to the reissue; I didn't ask your permission to have my opinion, nor do I give a rat's ass what yours is), it means you feel the need to let everyone know, again and again, that you're right and we're all wrong. That's the definition of self-important.

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 am

Yes, yes.

This reminds me of when the star running back ran out of bounds after getting a first down, insteading of taking a hit. You see, this showed he was a coward, and it showed that he had no morals (and bad ethics). This also showed that he would probably make a bad husband, and couldn't hold a steady job- and I bet he is even a bad friend.I mean, gawd, he couldn't stay in bounds... <b>what a pussy</b>!

Spare me.

Daryl Hall- nothing against you for having something against him, but he does not make that song worse at all. To the naked ear- he is just Elvis backtracking his own lead.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:55 pm

As an adult on a Charlie Brown special once said:

"Wah wah wah wah wah wah, wah wah wah wah wah wah, wah wah wah."

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:05 pm

This post is not to WHAR in particular, but (in the spirit of the thread) merely another observation about the reissue. It happens to be about The Only Flame In Town.

Something occured to me this morning listening to the GCW bonus disc. (Absurdly hypothetical situation alert). If by some unforseen set of circumstances, the only song by Elvis Costello that still existed in recorded format in 100 years was The Only Flame in Town, which version would you want it to be. Keep in mind that future generations would be unaware of ANY OTHER contribution to songcraft that EC had ever done. While this would be a tragic loss, there's still this one tune that exists. SO would you rather future generations knew EC by the demo version or the sax and oates version? Which would be the better version to represent Costello's brilliance?

That might make a good poll question...

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:13 pm

I like the poll, actually. It isn't a "I just had an argument- now back me up!" poll, it is an honest concept poll.

bambooneedle · Post by **bambooneedle** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:01 am

I've gotta say, reading this latest prick and pussy exchange almost makes me feel a bit foolish in light of my apology...

stormwarning · Post by **stormwarning** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:21 am

Two guys fighting over Daryl Hall. I wonder what he'd say if he knew about it...

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:29 am

bambooneedle wrote:I've gotta say, reading this latest prick and pussy exchange almost makes me feel a bit foolish in light of my apology...

Mr. Average · Post by **Mr. Average** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:11 am

The ultimate irony in the debate is that Daryl Hall is a very talented guy. His "Sacred Songs" album is excellent, even though it is very uncool to admit it. Fripp produced it as part of his Exposure series (including Peter Gabriel II).

I note that soul music won the musical genre poll. I highly recommend to anyone who responded with a "soul" vote top Daryl Halls "Soul Alone" CD. Great Philly soul sound, great songs that will hook you and hold your short term memory hostage after repeated listenings.

Hall and Oates third album, "War Babies" produced by Tood Rundgren is a good record.

Daryl is guilty if raking in the cash with formula music. As did Phil Collins. But listen to the first two Brand X records where Phil let his true musical interests lead, and the analogy to Daryl Hall is not strained. Elvis maybe was going through a strange era, and influenced by those who would make him the King of Pop instead of Jacko, but he chose a great talent to work with. Daryl is no hack

All that being said, I am not a Hall and Oates fan, save for Abandoned Luncheonette and War Babies.

So who is the Maneater here? Bamboo, WHAR works hard on one of two things, I am not sure which. He is either working hard to be a pissy recalcitrant 18 year old "I fought authority" type guy whose trigger is that he hates teachers, or he is trying on the mantel of the angry rock star just in case it ever fits. I wouldn't judge any exchange involving WHAR as worthy of rethinking anything. Your comments were considered to be authentic and positive. I compliment you, and I did complement your post by, in turn, reciprocating with my own admission of being less than civil and prone to angry hyperbole from time to time.

Your posts are worth reading and investing thought in. I have long since concluded that there is more flip flop and more spin in the WHAR provocations than in a Kerry/Bush debate (as we will see), and thus, I don't take the imbecilic bait that he fishes with. Sometimes, I think he does exactly what I had accused you of once doing, and that is sparking angry debate as a form of empowerment and even inspiration. I will apologize for attributing such innane methods to you, as they were unwarranted and undeserved. I will not apologize to the new kid on the block who thinks he is Sid Viscious and is actually nothing more than a flushed pubic hair from the toilet of courtney love.

Sara smiiiiiiiiiiiiiuuuulllllllllllllll.

laughingcrow · Post by **laughingcrow** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:46 am

Let battle commence!

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:00 am

Mr Average, you suffer from the same "save the whales" condition as Noise. I was not provoking anybody with this debate- I was not the ONLY person in this debate. I did not sit here typing to myself. I, simply, love the song "The Only Flame In Town"- much more than its ballad version. Big deal.

My posts had nothing to do with me craving attention, or me attempting to rebel. Why would I rebel to the one rebel on the board? Especially when he was one of the few kind people I've talked to on here (next to Spooky, and recently- Blue).

I understand that you hold Noise in high regard, I've read you two's love letters to eachother before. However, lets throw some responsibility on each party of the debate. "Responsibility for what?" you ask? I respond with: EXACTLY.

It was a difference in opinion. Get over it. The world isn't caving in, and I still have more posts than you.

I love that, simply because I am 18- any opinion I back up is considered thirty-eight levels more hostile than it truly is. Then, I get some three paragraph responce from somebody like you, Mr Average, and I'm still somehow considered the asshole.

It isn't that I'm trying to be a rebel, it seems more that you guys see me as a rebel. Perhaps it was my Daryl Palumbo icon?

Oh, yeah, you support Bush... I'm wasting my time.

In conclusion,
Mr Average, douche bag- go back into hiding.

signed,
No Longer the New Kid On The Block.

*edit: typos

bambooneedle · Post by **bambooneedle** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:12 pm

wehitandrun wrote:

It's alright WHAR, no need to get emotional.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:13 pm

I'm not all mad at WHAR, so I don't want this to turn into more debate. We disagreed about the song and said so. I thought he said so in an insulting way, and I said so. He responded (defensively, I think) that I was full of shit. I called him a prick, which wasn't polite and was defensive on my part. Not my finest hour, but it felt good at the time, and I think what he said was "prick" worthy. But that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned. I suspect it didn't hurt his feelings too much and that he moved on from it pretty quickly. If we had been in the same room having this conversation, we'd have said what we said, told each other to f off and then I'd have had a beer and he'd have had a coke. (I'm not contributing to the delinquency of a minor). I think he has a tendency to rush to insult when he's disagreed with. So do a lot of people. Maybe I shouldn't have called him a prick, but he shouldn't have told me I was full of shit either. Big deal. Blue told Bob and Charlotte to fuck off the other day. No one blinked. Why is this blip of an exchange even post-worthy?

Bamboo, If me calling whar a prick makes you feel like you shouldn't have bothered to apologize, then I take it back. WHAR, you're not a prick. Just sort of a son of a bitch.

(Royal Tennenbaums referrence. Calm down).

bambooneedle · Post by **bambooneedle** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:36 pm

noiseradio wrote:Bamboo, If me calling whar a prick makes you feel like you shouldn't have bothered to apologize, then I take it back.

It doesn't. I did say "almost".

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:45 pm

The reason why this is such a controversial debate- is that Mr. A is involved.

When you cross him, the entire board will hear about it. He'll spread his virus into each and every section.

Eh. Anyway. You're still my favorite poster, Noise, even if we get into eachother's hair once in a blue moon.

El Vez · Post by **El Vez** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:43 pm

Blue tells B&C to fuck off, WHAR proclaims Noiseradio to be full of shit, Noise calls WHAR a prick, cats and dogs living together......MASS HYSTERIA!

Seriously, this is the sort of thing I would expect from the Vice President when he is addressing a certain senator from Vermont. I'd like to think that anonymous posters on a b-level celebrity's unofficial message board could keep it classy.