Wake up you footy fans!!!

PlaythingOrPet · Post by **PlaythingOrPet** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:24 pm

Now you know I'd've never called Heskey a donkey when he was at Liverpool, but now Birmingham (or wherever) have snagged him for an exorbitant £5 million I shall now call him a donkey.

Yes, that feels good. Only Jesus himself knows why he's in the squad....not that I really care.

John · Post by **John** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:10 pm

So Lacklustre suggests Rooney for penalties. The only one he has taken (apart from in shootouts) he missed! - 02/03 season at Chelsea. I would stick with Beckham for penalties if I were to select him. He doesn't seem to do anything except dead ball kicks anymore.
I would keep Gerrard and Lampard in the 2 central midfield positions and replace the injured Scholes with Dyer on the left.
I think the back four should be left alone with Terry on the bench.
It won't happen but Robinson for James and Vassell for Owen anyone?

Otis Westinghouse · Post by **Otis Westinghouse** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:48 pm

I don't think Owen will refind his lost brilliance after a start like that. I'd merrily start with Vassell instead. England looked good at first, but ultimately lack the class. Former star performers like Beckham and Scholes aren't delivering, passing the baton to too many England novices and youngsters (though fair dues to Rooney for looking unfazed by everything, and King for looking masterful).

SLL, were you secretly hoping to see brilliance from Henry and Pires? Go on, admit it!

Gillibeanz · Post by **Gillibeanz** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:47 am

Meatheads and tossers for flying the flag? I dont think so. All we want to do is get into the spirit of things and show our support for the boys - nothing to do with racisim! Even my old mum and dad have their windows decorated with posters etc and they live in a 20 storey skyscraper!

Whats wrong with showing your support? If you go to the game you take your scarf/flag/cap/shirt etc? to show support for your team so whats the difference between flying the flag to wearing an England shirt as I suspect most of you do? Nothing wrong with having a bit of pride for your country.

Jackson Monk · Post by **Jackson Monk** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:08 am

I disagree about Owen. He's always been a player to blow hot and cold, but i think certain matches suit him better than others. The France match was a tight, tactical affair, with defecnes on both sides playing very deep. I think it will be a different story on Thursday and next Monday....I'd expect him to net 1 or 2. Have confidence, have faith...

With regard to flying the flag, I tend to lean a little towards Gilli's point of view, but for a slightly different reason. I have certainly changed my view over the past year. 12 Months ago I would have been able to judge the community I was in on the basis of how many St.Georges or Union Jacks were hanging out of the bedroom windows......not so this week because it has become common place. Does this mean there are more people with facist views than I previously thought?? I don't think so.

A gay pal of mine always refers to himself as a "poof" . He says he does so because it takes the power of the word and makes it less threatening when used as a term of abuse. I think that there are interesting paralels between this and the recent increase in the flying of the Flag of St.George. It has previously been seen by some as a threatening, racist symbol of the far right. In some ways in makes it less so, because it is so widely used. Some of my neighbours have taken to putting flags in their gardens for the duration of the tournament and they are the nicest, most politicallly sedate people I know. My closet colleague at work regards himself as 'the last living marxist' but he wandered into the office last Friday with a St.George flag on his T-Shirt.

So i guess I can see the value of the English people reclaiming the flag as a source of positive pride, as opposed to an embarassing ensign of hatred and facism. IMHO one of the errors made by the more liberal politicians in recent times, was to make the English people feel in some way ashamed to be proud of their country. This has given scum like the BNP more ammunition to throw around.

There is plenty for us to be ashamed of in our past and sadly in our present, but as an Englishman, I refuse to take the blame for the sins of the likes of Lloyd George, MacMillan, Thatcher and Blair. I am proud of my 'Englishness' despite the fact that I have Irish parents who are republicans (of which i am also rightly proud - doesn't mean I'm proud of the IRA). Being 'English' should not just be seen in negative terms, associated with all things evil, such as the BNP, blinkered pro-Bush foreign policy and the Sun newspaper(

).

Having said all of this....I do think that four-wheel drivers with flags sticking out everywhere look like total tossers...

Gillibeanz · Post by **Gillibeanz** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:32 am

Jackson Monk wrote:

Having said all of this....I do think that four-wheel drivers with flags sticking out everywhere look like total tossers...

Mark me down as a double total tosser then cos my car has 2 flags on it.

so lacklustre · Post by **so lacklustre** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:58 pm

My tosser remark was not meant as jibe at right wing tory voters at all, I just don't get the point of putting a flag on your car.

Neither do I or have I ever worn a replica shirt of Arsenal or England and nor will I ever either. They are crass, they are a total fucking rip-off and they support slave labour in third world countries. If I wanted to be a sheep I would be demanding shagging rights as well. Maybe I am rebelling against being a cub scout cos I hate all uniforms.

Otis Westinghouse · Post by **Otis Westinghouse** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:21 pm

Clearly the use of the flag has changed drastically in recent years, from Moz being reviled for wearing one (hardly surprising, given that he had backdrops of skinheads and sang National Front Disco) to him singing about standing by it and not now being seen as 'racist or partial'. It's hugely widespread, and yes that diffuses it's associations with the BNP, etc., but I still flinch at seeing it everywhere because it is a badge for football hooligans to make their own, and they are repellent. Why were their disturbances on Sunday night? You would never, ever get that in a country like Spain. Football hooliganism is one of the most unpleasant things about this country, and is inextricably linked with the far right, and even though a minority of people sporting the flag are of that ilk, it doesn't take away those associations, any more than a homophobe shouting 'fucking poof' at someone in public is made less offensive because a gay refers to himself as a poof. I do own a MU shirt, but only because my nephew didn't want his! I'm happy for my son to wear it, even though I know he's being ripped off and the production of that shirt is probably as shameful as that of the trainers he, I and probably everyone reading this wears.

One more positive argument in favour of the English flag is that it does clarify the separation between England and the other countries within Great Britain. And yet where else is this celebration of Englishness? We don't celebrate the day, to speak of. Most Englanders don't even know when it is. There are no other days in the year, like Bastille Day to celebrate our special history. So this Englishness is reduced to the Euro and the World Cup, making it seem like a marketing exercise for flag producers.

I've nothing against non-meatheads sporting them, like you Gilli, and of course loving the English team is an expression of pride in your country. Just wanting to explain why the sight of them everywhere (and we do have stickers in our car and in my son's window that he got in magazines) makes me uncomfortable.

Gillibeanz · Post by **Gillibeanz** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:15 am

Sometimes these things go too far. I read in the paper that companies were banning thier employees from putting these little flags on their vehicles for fear of upsetting foreign people in this country!.

Im not racist and would not allow anyone in my house that was, and I wouldnt dream of flying the flag unless there is an inpending England game.

It really pisses me off no end and makes me think well whats the point of having an England team if everyone is up in arms about anyone showing their support for it? What are we going to rule next, that all football supporters who go to a game are not allowed to wear their teams colours for fear of upsetting the opposition?

I for one would love a united kingdom team but Ireland Scotland and Wales all want their independance so it will never happen. So that being the case I will support England, I will show my support for England and im proud to be English and if that offends ANYONE then tough shit!

Having said all that, I am pleased to announce I have gotton over the shock of our defeat and am now ready to put myself through the agonies of the next round on Thursday - God help me!!!

Otis Westinghouse · Post by **Otis Westinghouse** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:46 pm

Fair dues. It doesn't offend me, it just unsettles me somewhat. I wouldn't ban anything.

Incredible that Greece are now in a great position to qualify. they'll probably lose to Russia! The predictions game is mighty hard in this tournament. the only result I've got fully right was, ahem, Eng v france (well, you have to have consolations).

Am well excited over Switzerland. We just might be in with a chance for that one.

verbal gymnastics · Post by **verbal gymnastics** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:52 am

We're always in with a chance; it's how much of a chance that's the question.

There is no conceivable reason why we should not win this one unless he plays Heskey and Phil Neville as his strike force.

Actually, from the squad what would be the WORST team Sven could pick (but playing everybody in their proper positions)?

I am so gutted. I have got tickets to see Al Murray Pub Landlord on Monday night which is at exactly the same time as England v Croatia

What is a boy to do?

And what excuse can I give to leave early today? I can feel a headache coming on...as can half of the working population!

PlaythingOrPet · Post by **PlaythingOrPet** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:29 am

The brick shithouse - sorry, I mean Wayne Rooney - has just scored.

Back to the reason I came here: Bobby Robson is a babbling old fool. Don't get me wrong, I love him as a manager and the way he's still at it at his age, but as a commentator? "Yes, the pitch is good. The ball will roll." WTF?!

Gillibeanz · Post by **Gillibeanz** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:36 pm

3 - 0!!! OH THE JOY..... OH THE BLISSSSS!!!!

Jackson Monk · Post by **Jackson Monk** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:52 pm

I correctly predicted the score on our euro predictor league and have safely moved to 9th in th group and 161st in the lague...
...better still, I had £10 on Gerrard at 4-1 to score at any time in the game....

With regards to the wonderful Booy Robson...what a great comment on the Swiss: "The Swedes are a tough lot to crack open"...priceless

Otis Westinghouse · Post by **Otis Westinghouse** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:27 pm

Hah! I predicted 2-0, and as several others had Rooney in the fantasy online league and not me, though I did have Gerrard, I could really have done without that Rooney goal. Zidane as my captain was a good propsect, but is it worth keeping Henry? He had the odd moment, and were it not for a ludicrous offside decision where there was no offside, he might have scored in the one-on-one with the goalie.

Great to see our boys get 3 in. Where's me flag gone?

laughingcrow · Post by **laughingcrow** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:24 am

sits in his damp, dark lonely corner, jealously biting his fingernails to the quick....bah, bah.....bloody football, I've had enough of it, enough of it I say...when will it end, when will it end????

PlaythingOrPet · Post by **PlaythingOrPet** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:11 am

Mark 'Lawro' Lawrenson:

“It was played into the corridor of uncertainty.”

These people crack me up.

*pets Crow* There, there, it's not your fault your national team is so utterly inept at the one thing they're paid to do.

laughingcrow · Post by **laughingcrow** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:20 pm

one day, we'll be back...Miller, Fletcher, McFadden, Kennedy, Maloney, Ferguson....the future's bright - the future's tartan.

or am I just kidding myself. I wonder if John Collins, Gary McAllister and Ally McCoist will donate semen to the guys up in Aberdeen who created Dolly the Sheep?

Gillibeanz · Post by **Gillibeanz** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:03 pm

No comments on last nights game then anyone?

I thought England played well against a pretty good side! Sol was as ever man mountain in defense, some good saves by James, and well Rooney -what can one say that hasnt aready been said? Glad to see Scholes finally burried the ghost and got a goal the useless wanker!!

But for me the man of the match was Ashley Cole. He played an awesome game and was everywhere. Well done lads keep up the good work and roll on thursday - I have my valium and straightjacket incase we lose at the ready!!

John · Post by **John** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:24 pm

I thought we (England) played really well. I couldn't understand John Motson and Joe Royle's comments during the first half suggesting otherwise. Our young boy just keeps getting better and better. It would be great to keep him at Goodison and find some world class players to play with him. All would have to be on free transfers and not expect to be paid!
If only Owen and Beckham could find a bit of form we would have a great chance.
Did anyone else notice that Joe Royle actually referred to Lampard as Redknapp at one point - I think I'll have to press the red button and have the radio commentary in future.

PlaythingOrPet · Post by **PlaythingOrPet** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:05 pm

John - you're a Toffee, ain't you? So how much for Rooney, then?

John · Post by **John** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:29 pm

Yes, Plaything, very much a toffee. I would like to believe he is not for sale but even David Moyes said yesterday that eveyone has a price. The £50m figure sounds about right and I think there is only one club that can afford him. He'll probably be off to that Russian London club with your Stevie G.

PlaythingOrPet · Post by **PlaythingOrPet** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:31 pm

John wrote:He'll probably be off to that Russian London club with your Stevie G.

Noooo! Don't say that.

John · Post by **John** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:35 pm

It seems that the deal is done, Plaything. I think he'll be kissing a blue badge next season

Otis Westinghouse · Post by **Otis Westinghouse** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:09 pm

Will Rooney go on for years as an all-time England hero, or will he descend into fatboy slob status quicker than you can say Gazza? Before the Euro I would have said the latter, now I along with everyone else would go for the former! Amazing stuff. With Spain and Italy out and France and Holland wobbly, I'd say we have as good a chance as anyone. It's a shame owen didn't score last night. He made some useful contributions. He needs to have his confidence lifted, as Scholesyboy will have.

Unbelievable to see Italy struggling to beat a generally all over the place and thoroughly filthy Bulgaria. You almost feel sorry for them.