which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
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which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
i hope i created this poll properly...or that someone can help!!
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
Sorry guys, I find your poll to be the biggest CLUNKER of them all... what a waste in time... investing in negativity...when it's just some music, our hero felt joy in making and releasing it.
Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy the critical approach we hold dear on this board, especially when it comes to HIM.
But it was the creative and intelligent level that always was inherent in it, that I love.
And not this cheap bashing.
Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy the critical approach we hold dear on this board, especially when it comes to HIM.
But it was the creative and intelligent level that always was inherent in it, that I love.
And not this cheap bashing.
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
Appreciate your opinion...and i don't usually partake in EC negativity AT ALL! I think this just arose because i was hellbent on defending CRUEL.... moreso than bashing RIVER!!! but, its created and what the heck, I'll let people state their vote if they'd like. Or not. Best, ba
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
That's why I always preferred music to sports. Even if they don't hit a homer, score a goal, whatever, it's still a winning situation.
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
Well said Fred....and ill repeat what i often say. I wish the record was as great as the tour.
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
Appreciate your response, bronx apostle!bronxapostle wrote:Appreciate your opinion...and i don't usually partake in EC negativity AT ALL! I think this just arose because i was hellbent on defending CRUEL.... moreso than bashing RIVER!!! but, its created and what the heck, I'll let people state their vote if they'd like. Or not. Best, ba
And of course I can actually feel for you a lot, with your spontaneous and direct standing up for defending WIWC!
And it is quite likely that I could have reacted quite similar to you...
Though not being my favorite of EC's album, but it is definitely an album I do remember with lots of positive feelings:
for the fact of being a comeback itself- not the appropriate expression for any single period in his recording career ever, but still somehow after the 4-year long hiatus after the masterpiece PFM -, the joy of him in experimenting in new sounds (including getting to know the wonderful work of Mina especially of the 60's), the number of exceptional tracks you did already mention (the only one that never made it for me was My little blue window...) and, definitely, the two marvelous shows of him with the newly established Imposters, first in Zurich and second in San Francisco, some weeks later.
I do also like TRIR for its down to earth-sound and, overall, the taking part of the wonderful Allen Toussaint, but of course, CRUEL is much more of a Costello album.
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
And thank you trmsltaaaaaa....we have had a long history TEN YEARS I WOULD BET, of usually agreeing with each other. I don't like being downhearted about ANY music we get...YOU ARE CORRECT ABOUT THAT. these forum things, especially amongst us long timers is not to cause dissent. Rather, just the sheer fun of discussion. Kind of like the silliness of eliminating one at a time our least fave GH or MAIT songs. No harm, just a time killer at these pages....maybe welcome now more than ever in these current days.taramasalata wrote:Appreciate your response, bronx apostle!bronxapostle wrote:Appreciate your opinion...and i don't usually partake in EC negativity AT ALL! I think this just arose because i was hellbent on defending CRUEL.... moreso than bashing RIVER!!! but, its created and what the heck, I'll let people state their vote if they'd like. Or not. Best, ba
And of course I can actually feel for you a lot, with your spontaneous and direct standing up for defending WIWC!
And it is quite likely that I could have reacted quite similar to you...
NOW WILL YOU CAST YOUR VOTE IN THE POLL?
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
that sounds like you are having a brilliant memory, I bet you must be right!bronxapostle wrote:
And thank you trmsltaaaaaa....we have had a long history TEN YEARS I WOULD BET, of usually agreeing with each other.
bronxapostle wrote: NOW WILL YOU CAST YOUR VOTE IN THE POLL?
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
Honestly, i have GREAT recall sometimes. And others not. As i thought we interacted before, it was easy to read a few posts as you are NOT a bigmouth like me. And i did see a couple old friendly posts to each other verifying my hunch. Is that WIWC clunk vote yours? LOL
Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
I don't think either is remotely 'a clunker', but FWIW there are a lot more tracks on WIWC which I regularly listen to than there are tracks on TRIR which I regularly listen to. So, using that criterion, TRIR loses. Although I do think the title tack of TRIR is one of the best things he's ever written, and is slinkier and more clever than anything on WIWC.
Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
I like them both but I count the greatest love as included on RIR and that puts it over the top
Ba, maybe you need a re-think towards tearing off you own head for the good album revolution— lol my friend!! Hope to see you soon
Ba, maybe you need a re-think towards tearing off you own head for the good album revolution— lol my friend!! Hope to see you soon
I too am a limited, primitive kind of man
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
I think both releases are good albums. They are both very solid, but neither is great in my opinion. However, they are both far from clunkers.
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
Adore both of these records. Rate them both above Goodbye Cruel World, Spike, Mighty Like a Rose, Painted From Memory, and Useless Beauty.
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
Hmmm...I assume my mischievous reference to WIWC as a "clunker" in the other thread triggered this post. As others have noted, it's not clear why we should specifically contrast WIWC with RIR. Neither is vintage EC, however, that's for sure. RIR is good for what it is, a side-project in response to Katrina and in homage to Toussaint. WIWC doesn't have that excuse.
EC went through a few years there in the late-90s and early-2000s where one of two things seemed to have happened: either his inspiration level was simply not what it had been (he was a 'semi-sick craftsman,' in Lennon's words), or else his best moments occurred when he was subsuming his distinctive lyrical voice under the demands of a rigorous formalism. The best efforts from this period - PFM and North - take on the latter character. Offerings such as ATUB and WIWC seem to show him attempting, without much success, to rise to the level of the sharp apercu, memorable images,and emotional force of his best work. I would speculate (and I'm sure this would drive him crazy) that living in a dismal marriage with an alcoholic simply ground down his creative spark in this era. Of course he remained as hard-working and prolific as ever; it's just the writing which suffered.
On WIWC specifically, there are good songs on there, naturally; this is EC we're talking about. The first four songs range from good to great. It's after that that the inspiration slackens. Frankly, not one of those cuts is anything special ("Window" maybe has a chance). Some of the oft-touted highlights, such as Tart and Alibi, are simply overrated. Tart neither hangs together coherently nor offers the sharp images and insight of his best stuff; Alibi is a plodding bore, frankly, made worse for mistaking itself for one of his classic excursions into biting commentary. The splendid chorus of 'Blonde' is sandwiched between harsh and grating verses. Sorry, it's just not happening on this record. It belongs with GCW (which has much better writing on the whole) as a nadir among his major pop/rock efforts.
My feeling is that the return journey to A-grade Elvis Costello begins with TDM, stutters promisingly but erratically along with Momofuku and SPS, and then kicks into overdrive with the resplendent NR, WUG, and Look. And long may his current hot streak continue.
EC went through a few years there in the late-90s and early-2000s where one of two things seemed to have happened: either his inspiration level was simply not what it had been (he was a 'semi-sick craftsman,' in Lennon's words), or else his best moments occurred when he was subsuming his distinctive lyrical voice under the demands of a rigorous formalism. The best efforts from this period - PFM and North - take on the latter character. Offerings such as ATUB and WIWC seem to show him attempting, without much success, to rise to the level of the sharp apercu, memorable images,and emotional force of his best work. I would speculate (and I'm sure this would drive him crazy) that living in a dismal marriage with an alcoholic simply ground down his creative spark in this era. Of course he remained as hard-working and prolific as ever; it's just the writing which suffered.
On WIWC specifically, there are good songs on there, naturally; this is EC we're talking about. The first four songs range from good to great. It's after that that the inspiration slackens. Frankly, not one of those cuts is anything special ("Window" maybe has a chance). Some of the oft-touted highlights, such as Tart and Alibi, are simply overrated. Tart neither hangs together coherently nor offers the sharp images and insight of his best stuff; Alibi is a plodding bore, frankly, made worse for mistaking itself for one of his classic excursions into biting commentary. The splendid chorus of 'Blonde' is sandwiched between harsh and grating verses. Sorry, it's just not happening on this record. It belongs with GCW (which has much better writing on the whole) as a nadir among his major pop/rock efforts.
My feeling is that the return journey to A-grade Elvis Costello begins with TDM, stutters promisingly but erratically along with Momofuku and SPS, and then kicks into overdrive with the resplendent NR, WUG, and Look. And long may his current hot streak continue.
When man has destroyed what he thinks he owns
I hope no living thing cries over his bones
I hope no living thing cries over his bones
Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
I actually feel that has never been a clunker album from Elvis. Even the album that Elvis himself thinks is his worst (GCW) has some great moments and kind of works as a cohesive album. WIWC has some of my favorite and greatest Elvis songs. People seem to forget how truly great songs like Radio Silence and WIWC No. 2 are. Plus I just love Spooky Girlfriend.
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
Precisely PD....I only ran with the CLUNKER banner because you anointed WIWC in that manner. I just stepped to the plate to defend it and i guess came up with the idea of the poll of it versus my opinion of his weakest album. All in good fun. Best wishes, baPoor Deportee wrote:Hmmm...I assume my mischievous reference to WIWC as a "clunker" in the other thread triggered this post. As others have noted, it's not clear why we should specifically contrast WIWC with RIR. Neither is vintage EC, however, that's for sure. RIR is good for what it is, a side-project in response to Katrina and in homage to Toussaint.
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
Radio Silence never fails to give me chills. It's one of his finest moments. For some reason I connect it to this Godley & Creme song that features Paul McCartney on backing vocals
https://youtu.be/mKizfO5fAbk
Both are on the radio subject so maybe that's why but who knows.
https://youtu.be/mKizfO5fAbk
Both are on the radio subject so maybe that's why but who knows.
Who on earth is tapping at the window?
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
Poor Deportee wrote: Alibi is a plodding bore, frankly, made worse for mistaking itself for one of his classic excursions into biting commentary.
I remember at the time it was released how disappointed I was in Alibi. Live it was stripped down, short, punchy and full of vitriol. The recorded version is a boring overlong damp squib. Rarely has EC failed to deliver on record as badly as this. Should re-record a la No Flag.
I’m not voting in this as I don’t think either clunk- I like both in their own way although neither are creme de la creme.
Can't you see I'm trying to change this water to wine
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
i guess as a guy who loved ALIBI back when it was ALIBI FACTORY in 1999, the song could do me no wrong, any version. May i especially recommend the LIVE IMPOSTERS take from October 28, 2002 from Newark, New Jersey....killer NEIL YOUNG style.
Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
Ba, I love the version of girls talk on that one!!
It was a great show and souvenir afterward too!
It was a great show and souvenir afterward too!
I too am a limited, primitive kind of man
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
that was one of my top ten shows EVER jmm....i believe!! WHAT A ROOM!! don't know why he never returned there.
Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
I’m waiting for it too ba!! I’ll save u a seat
I too am a limited, primitive kind of man
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Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
It reminds me how I re-discovered and grew to love WIWC three years after its release. It even made me create a thread about it. You can find it here:
http://www.elviscostellofans.com/phpBB3 ... ted#p53803
http://www.elviscostellofans.com/phpBB3 ... ted#p53803
If you don't know what is wrong with me
Then you don't know what you've missed
Then you don't know what you've missed
Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
BA...
I, for one, wholly approve of (occasionally) polling people on "worst"s in regard to EC, or any artist. A while back I'd asked the Wiki crew to name his three worst songs, and I got some really indignant responses. My attitude has always been that, yes, this is a fan's site and we're all here because we love EC. However, that doesn't preclude discussing the good and the bad, critiquing and analyzing from ALL directions. It gets boring, and is unedifying, to read rave after rave about everything. At a certain point people go beyond being fans to being "marks," and that's intellectually bankrupt. And dull as hell.
With that being said: I'm shocked that you view WIWC as a not-so-good album; I actually think it's a highlight of the past 25 years. Tons of great tunes (WIWC, Alibi, My Little Blue Window, Daddy Can I Turn This, Dissolve, and oh my God, Episode of Blonde). River in Reverse made much less of an impression on me; seems like more of a novelty than anything else.
Weakest albums IMO: Goodbye Cruel World, Momofuku, Look Now. Mighty Like a Rose, Spike
I, for one, wholly approve of (occasionally) polling people on "worst"s in regard to EC, or any artist. A while back I'd asked the Wiki crew to name his three worst songs, and I got some really indignant responses. My attitude has always been that, yes, this is a fan's site and we're all here because we love EC. However, that doesn't preclude discussing the good and the bad, critiquing and analyzing from ALL directions. It gets boring, and is unedifying, to read rave after rave about everything. At a certain point people go beyond being fans to being "marks," and that's intellectually bankrupt. And dull as hell.
With that being said: I'm shocked that you view WIWC as a not-so-good album; I actually think it's a highlight of the past 25 years. Tons of great tunes (WIWC, Alibi, My Little Blue Window, Daddy Can I Turn This, Dissolve, and oh my God, Episode of Blonde). River in Reverse made much less of an impression on me; seems like more of a novelty than anything else.
Weakest albums IMO: Goodbye Cruel World, Momofuku, Look Now. Mighty Like a Rose, Spike
Re: which of these two long players is MORE of a clunker?
That Newark show was terrific. The a capella version of Still Too Soon to Know remains a singular highlight of my EC concert-going experiencebronxapostle wrote:i guess as a guy who loved ALIBI back when it was ALIBI FACTORY in 1999, the song could do me no wrong, any version. May i especially recommend the LIVE IMPOSTERS take from October 28, 2002 from Newark, New Jersey....killer NEIL YOUNG style.