EH'S ANGER!!!

Extreme Honey · Post by **Extreme Honey** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:01 am

So I was googling the other day for some recommended albums to "buy" when I was struck again with best-albums-of-all-time lists. I googled some more for these types of lists and found out that the supposed greatest albums (ever) were always these:

Stone Roses
Dark Side Of The Moon
Led Zeppelin 4
Revolver
Sgt.Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Abbey Road
London Calling
Joshua Tree
Rubber Soul
Who's Next
Blue
OK Computer
Exile On Main Street

So out of anger I made my own list, the list I call "The only albums and artists that should ever hold the right to become a top 10"

The Only Albums That Should Ever Hold The Right To Become a Top 10:

Blood on the tracks
Mighty Like A Rose (or Get Happy!!)
Imperial Bedroom
Highway 61 Revisited
Blonde on Blonde
Time Out of Mind
Abbey Road
Revolver
Sgt.Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Ziggy Stardust and the spider from mars
The Wall (Should this be removed?)

The Only Artists That Should Ever Hold The Right To Become a Top 10: (I judge the quality of an artist by his consistency, variation of musical styles and quality of lyrics)

Elvis Costello
Bob Dylan
Van Morrison (Should he also be removed?)
The Beatles
Paul McCartney
John Lennon
Fleetwood Mac (removed?)
David Bowie
Elton John (removed?)
Bruce Springsteen

My aim is to perfect these lists. Please help me by making suggestions as to what should be placed and/or removed. If you think I am an absolute idiot who dosn't know anything, you are absolutely right, but please tell me what I should do to make these lists perfect (in a humble manner, I don't want more war here lol!!).
Let's make 'em suffer,
Thomas.

Mike Boom · Post by **Mike Boom** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:21 am

If your idea of "perfection" means white, male, middle class, middle of the road, classic guitar based rock, I would say your list is ok.

If you think I am an absolute idiot who dosn't know anything, you are absolutely right

You are missing out on a very very large portion of the music world my friend - Jazz, Blues, Reggae, R N B, Country, Folk, - you know, music made by black people and music made by women! You are on the message board of an artist who listens to an EXTREMEMLY wide variety of music - most of those who post here do too.

You need to go to a record store or download site and get some music by these people.
- Chuck Berry
- Sun Ra
- Nina Simone
- James Brown
- Alice Coltrane
- Joni Mitchell
- John Martyn
- Richard Thompson
- Gram Parsons
- Bob Marley
- Jimmy Hendrix
- Prince
- Captain Beefheart
- Sam Cooke

lock yourself in your bedroom and dont come out untill youve absorbed it ALL - then make a list.

Post by **BlueChair** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:28 am

So wait, you were looking at Best Of lists to see what you should buy, when really you were expecting only to see albums you own? If you're looking to broaden your horizons you definitely need to move beyond the 1960s and 1970s, and certainly beyond white men.

If you haven't already, check out some of Elvis' suggestions:

http://www.elviscostello.info/articles/ ... 1101a.html

Mike Boom · Post by **Mike Boom** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:51 am

...and
Laura Nyro
Muddy Waters
Rickie Lee Jones
Aretha Franklin
Howlin Wolf
Buddy Holly
George Jones
Tammy Wynette
Dusty Springfield....the list goes on and on.

Buy and listen to anything you normally wouldnt.

hollyh · Post by **hollyh** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:17 pm

If your idea of "perfection" means white, male, middle class, middle of the road, classic guitar based rock, I would say your list is ok.

Well, if I could spend the rest of my life listening to white middle-class men playing guitar life would still be just fine. (And please add the Kinks to that must-have list.) But to add to the wider list:

Ray Charles
Louis Armstrong
Billie Holliday
Nat King Cole
If you're gonna add Dusty (and you should) you must also add Patsy Cline.

Sure, I'd kick off Elton John and Fleetwood Mac -- I loved 'em at the time, can't listen to 'em at all anymore. But leave Van Morrison on; there's life in the old geezer yet.

Neil Young has played great music for enough years that he deserves to be included.

I despise Bruce Springsteen.

Mike Boom · Post by **Mike Boom** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:49 pm

Well, if I could spend the rest of my life listening to white middle-class men playing guitar life would still be just fine. (And please add the Kinks to that must-have list.)

Well yeah, its pretty much what I listen to aswell. Considering I am a white middle class man who loves guitar music more than anything else thats not so strange - however, to make any sort of decleration of what are the greatest recordings of all time, without appearing a complete jack ass, you should at least have heard, absorbed and understood a wider range of music than our friend EH seems to have. Unless he is of course discarding all those above mentioned artists.

P.S My list of groups wasnt meant to be an exhaustive list of groups of quality - just a quick off the top of my head list of things that EH might like to consider. Perhaps he has and has discarded them as I said above? I dont know.

P.P.S The Wall is dreadfull!

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:33 pm

...and

John Coltrane
Thelonious Monk
Cafe Tacuba
De La Soul
REM
Miles Davis
John lee Hooker
Marvin Gaye
The Clash
Solomon Burke
Tom Waits
Bob Marley
Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan
Craig Mack
Roni Size
GURU
Tribe Called Quest
Al Green
Aretha Franklin
Joni Mitchell

And do yourself a huge favor and get a few Peter Gabriel albums, especially the last 3 or 4. You'll be exposed to so many mworthy musicians from around the world from those alone that your horizons can't help being expanded.

wardo68 · Post by **wardo68** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:10 pm

and Neil Young and Nick Drake while yer at it.

Extreme Honey · Post by **Extreme Honey** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:45 pm

Thanks for all the tips, and I guess I got a little bit on the white side. But don't forget I've listened to most of the names mentioned. They're all good (except Bob Marley and Jimi Hendrix-sry I just don't like them). But I'm trying to make a "Best Of List". And while albums such as "Kind of Blue, Blue, What's going on, Dark side of the moon, OKComputer, Rumours, Harvest, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, Purple Rain, are you experienced?, Thriller, Live at the apollo, anything by the muddy waters, A love supreme, etc." are great...they're just not masterpieces, things like "Blood on the tracks". I want to simply narrow down the number to 10. So if there truly is an album that is so good it can beat the ones I mentioned, then please post it!!!
So here's what I should add to the artist list:
Joni Mitchell
James Brown
Chuck Berry
Dusty Springfield
Buddy Holly (mmmm I dunno about this one)
Muddy Waters (Why didn't I think of this one?)
Nat King Cole
Louis Armstrong
Ray Charles (barely made the cut)
Billie Holiday
Peter Gabriel
Tom Waits
John Lee Hooker
REM (Still don't know about this one...what made them so great?)
John Coltrane
Neil Young

Do you guys think I could remove some of these or are they ALL essential?

wardo68 · Post by **wardo68** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:00 pm

I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you here. Of the short list you rattled off, "Kind of Blue", "Blue" and "What's Going On", "Are You Experienced?" and "Live at the apollo" are all masterpieces, while some of the rest you mention are pretty good. Take someone's earlier advice and listen to things you haven't heard yet; then wait 20 years and see if your tastes have changed. So-called best-of lists serve two purposes: to start arguments, and to suggest something you haven't heard yet.

To be fair, I first heard "A Love Supreme" in 1989, and it took me a good 15 years to "get it". So throw that on the list too.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 pm

Saying A Love Supreme isn't a masterpiece is just a statement made from pure unadulterated ignorange. You don't have to like it; you can even hate listening to it. But whether or not you enjoy it has nothing to do with its being a masterpiece. It'sa masterpiece because Jazz changed forever after its release. Because its influence was far-reaching; Jazz, blues, rock, and classical artists all cite it as a watershed moment in music. Because ecause every saxophonist worth a damn since it came out acknowledges it as the pinnacel. Because in it Coltrane reaches the absolute heights of technique, composition, and performance. Because it's as powerful spiritually and musically today as it was then. And because it's still so far ahead of its time that it sounds brand new. There are plenty of records that are masterpieces that I don't like. I prefer many of EC's records to Imperial Bedroom, but I understand that in many ways that's head and shoulders above the work I like better, especially in terms of composition and arrangement. I'd rather listen to Armed Forces. But I understand why it's not a masterpiece.

Your attitude on this thread is so confusing. You've already made up your mind about what you think is great, and though you'll listen to some of the suggestions made, you are willing to dismiss as unimportant things which are nearly universally heralded as some of the greatest records ever made. Why bother asking?

alexv · Post by **alexv** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:51 pm

Extreme, I wish I could help you but here's my confusion:

It looks to me as if you started out looking on the web for a "recommended" list of top albums to buy; you found a consensus list and then "out of anger" decided to form "YOUR" top album list (the one that turned out to be white, male dominated, although I would limit it to Dylan, Beatles dominated with a sprinkling of EC, Bowie and ....the wall). Then you say that your "aim to perfect these lists" and you ask for our help.

Here's where my confusion comes in: which list are you looking for help on? Are you looking for help in forming a "recommended" list of top albums or are you looking for us to help you in putting together a list that "you" would like.

If it's the former, you've already gotten lots of suggestions, and can get many more. The list of great albums is endless. Those magazine polls that list the top X number are completely subjectvie. There are thousands of "great" albums (as there are thousands of great books, paintings etc.). Narrowing any of these art forms to 10 or 100 is ridiculous.

But it looks to me that what you are really after is a list of albums that "you" would consider great. And that's where the problem lies: only you can decide what you like. And what you or I like depends on many things, such as age, taste, education, interests, personality, background etc. You have to make those choices, and unfortunately those choices are all impacted by the listed factors.

For example, I see that you and I share a love for the Beatles and Dylan, and their our taste blend in. But when I note that you don't get Marley, question Van's worth, think that Blood on the Tracks is a masterpiece but not Kind of Blue, or What's Going On, or Thriller, that you are not sure about Buddy Holly, or that Ray Charles "barely makes the cut", I know that our differences are much greater than our agreements, and that's when I have to advice you to go at it on your own, but to remember that just because "you" don't see how a piece of music can be a masterpiece to "you" does not mean that it is not a masterpiece. The same applies to me and all the others. All our individual judgements are subjective.

So what you are getting from people is help in creating a "recommended" list, that's all. The fact that the recommendations may not be in agreement with your tastes is relevant only insofar as they exemplify the differences between your tastes and those of others.

I've always had a problem with two people on these lists: Neil Young and Jimi Hendrix. I don't get either one of them. But over and over again, people whose tastes I respect attest to their greatness. So what's my reaction? Should I say they are all idiots and are wrong? Or do I beat myself up because something must be wrong with me that I don't get them? I do neither: I conclude that there must be value to those two since so many people like them, but I also conclude that, to me, for any of the reasons cited above, they don't do the trick. And I leave it at that.

I suggest you form your own list, geared to your tastes. You should be open to additions based on recommendations from people whose judgements you trust, and not get upset at the fact that your tastes don't match the "accepted" lists.

alexv · Post by **alexv** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:54 pm

Noise, I just read your post as I finished mine, and I think we are for once saying just about the same thing (the last paragraph I mean).

migdd · Post by **migdd** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:57 am

Extreme Honey, have I mentioned before now that I really like your avatar?!!

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:42 am

alexv wrote:Noise, I just read your post as I finished mine, and I think we are for once saying just about the same thing (the last paragraph I mean).

That's so funny. I was reading your first, longer post thinking the same thing. Then I read this post. I laughed out loud.

Actually I pretty much agree with your whole post, except I get Hendrix. Not a big Neil Young fan, but I'm with you--too many people I respect dig him for me to discount him. Maybe the genius of Harvest will manifest itself to me one day when I'm in my 50s. I'm certainly open to the possibility.

King Hoarse · Post by **King Hoarse** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:44 am

noiseradio wrote:
alexv wrote:Noise, I just read your post as I finished mine, and I think we are for once saying just about the same thing (the last paragraph I mean).
That's so funny. I was reading your first, longer post thinking the same thing. Then I read this post. I laughed out loud.

Actually I pretty much agree with your whole post, except I get Hendrix. Not a big Neil Young fan, but I'm with you--too many people I respect dig him for me to discount him. Maybe the genius of Harvest will manifest itself to me one day when I'm in my 50s. I'm certainly open to the possibility.

Neil tips: Try Weld for distorted rock with Crazy Horse, Tonight's The Night for drunken naked emotion or (especially the second side of) On The Beach for intimacy. Those have gotten some hesitant freinds of mine interested.

Extreme Honey · Post by **Extreme Honey** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:00 pm

Noise and Alexv, I guess you're both right. Trying to make a best of list in any type of art (yes i Think music is art) is impossible simply because there's so many genres and so many different people with so many different tastes. I respect all the names mentioned here, and in a way they're all masterpieces...in a way even Franz Ferdinard is a masterpiece seen through the right eyes. What I tried to do was to narrow down all the masterpieces in the world to 10 according to my taste and then dismiss them as the best, but now I see that's impossible and totally biest.

And shut up Migdd we all get it.

wardo68 · Post by **wardo68** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Extreme Honey wrote:What I tried to do was to narrow down all the masterpieces in the world to 10 according to my taste and then dismiss them as the best, but now I see that's impossible and totally biest.

That's one way of putting it.

Otis Westinghouse · Post by **Otis Westinghouse** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:20 pm

King Hoarse wrote:Neil tips: Try Weld for distorted rock with Crazy Horse, Tonight's The Night for drunken naked emotion or (especially the second side of) On The Beach for intimacy. Those have gotten some hesitant freinds of mine interested.

I've never checked out Weld, but really must. I love all the mid-70s classics (i.e. the two above + the beautiful Zuma), but I would recommend the Greatest Hits as a way of starting out.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00063 ... c&v=glance

If this doesn't grab you, the less well-known stuff is unlikely to either. It's just got 'genius' and 'masterpiece' written all over it, from the early classics like Down By The River and the fantastic Helpless through to 90s gem Harvest Moon. Alternatively, for a single LP and to get away from the 70s, I'd suggest Sleeps With Angels, from '94 or '95. Mixture of lovely ballads and Crazy Horse (surely one of the backing bands) giving it some. And the slightly mental idea of two songs using the same music with different arrangements and lyrics (Train of Love and Western Hero). For me, the last great thing he has done - and maybe will ever do, much as I like the gentle recent stuff like Prairie Wind and Silver And Gold.

Fishfinger king · Post by **Fishfinger king** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:45 pm

If you go for a wide choice you just get the lowest common denominator. Like what you like and don't worry what other people think.
(But missing out Pet Sounds is akin to genocide.

)